Shel Hell Dampens my Mac Envy

It's ironic.  Despite my publicly proclaimed faith in my Lenovo Thinkpad, I've been feeling this angst in my belly as one, techcentric CEO after another these days shows off their new Mac Pros.  When using the Parallel Software, it runs OSX and Windows pretty close to seamlessly.

But two events have occurred today that will stop me from straying from my Thinkpad monogamy. First, Manish  Hira left a comment here, showing that he too received a new computer after registering complaints about the one he had and the support that at first he was not getting.

Then Shel Holtz, my friend and namesake described how Apple has lost him as a customer because their ludicrous efforts to not support him in a crisis put him through Shel Hell.

Both of these incidents reminded me that the hardware and software, the OS and security issues are really no longer the issue. It took them long enough, but Windows and Office work pretty well for most of Microsoft's hundreds of millions of customers most of the time.  The same can be said for Apple Computer whose customers have remained the most passionately positive for as long as I can recall.

Where the rubber meets the road is in those rare times when things don't work well. Shel was in a crisis.  His disk went dormant, if not dead.  He was traveling.  He had deadlines. Lots of us feel the pain.

Apple responded with disdain, with inconsistency on what to do, with no appreciation for the urgency of a customer's problems. This is enough to keep me away from becoming more than an iPod customer in the foreseeable future.  I want to do business with companies who will be there for me when their products let me down. I just got a case of someone I trust getting helped by Lenovo and screwed by Apple. That's all I need to know to decide.

BTW, anyone from Apple Computer wishing to join this conversation is free to do so.

Comments

[Heather Ross]

Well I don't work for Mac, but as the ads say, "I'm a Mac." I've had my G4 iMac for a few years now. Something major went wrong early on and it was fixed at my local campus computer repair shop (no Mac store here in Saskatchewan). It was a fluke. Things go wrong with everything in life. Other than this incident I've been happy. I wouldn't buy a MacBook Pro as I have heard many complaints about those.

We did, however, buy an IBM computer a few years back and got the worst customer service from both them and Microsoft. I called tech support at IBM and got, "Sorry that sounds like a software problem. We can't help you. Try Microsoft." I did and heard, "Sorry, that sounds like a hardware problem. We can't help you."

When I called IBM back they told me that they would walk me through the repair and that I should get a screwdriver and remove the back. I was stunned. I had a warranty for a reason. I took it to the IBM store across the street where I had bought the damn thing and they too said the problem was Windows (95 I believe). That computer became a rather large doorstop after a while.

Our laptop Toshiba works well, but Windows XP is still quirky with it (we sometimes suddenly lose sound and it often freezes while trying to shut down).

I guess the point is that none of them are perfect and customer service in general these days just plain sucks.

[niti bhan]

Sounds like Lenovo knows how to do jugaad! :)

[Stephanie Booth]

I've been a Mac person since early 2004, and although I wasn't put in the same state of urgency as Shel, I did go through some sort of Apple Hell (blogged here: http://climbtothestars.org/archives/2006/07/26/dear-apple/ )

I'm afraid it might not be over yet, as my new MacBook seems to be overheating. If I have to go through what I went through once more, I'm not really sure Apple will retain me as a customer.

[Marc Orchant]

Shel - as you know, I'm a recovering graphic designer and have owned and used Macs as long as there have been Macs. That having been said, the company has been skidding in this direction for a long time and the Intel-based MabBooks have had quality control issues that no other company could have gotten away with as long as Apple has. It's just finally catching up with them.

Of the 25 people I know personally who have bought MacBooks or MackBook Pros, 22 have had to return them for critical service or have had them replaced! That's horrifying. And most of these people had to get pretty angry before having their concerns addressed to their satisfaction (i.e. their machine actually worked).

There is simply no way I will even consider the purchase of a new MacBook until Apple fixes the design and manufacturing flaws plaguing these models. I am, however, about to become the proud owner of one of the latest iMacs which appear, for the most part, to be just as solid, well-built, and elegant as ever.

My most recent experiences with two Dell laptops, a multifunction laser printer, and a large LCD monitor have been completely the inverse. All have been well-built, well-designed, and have worked flawlessly. Go figure.

[shel israel]

Marc,
In a way you make me feel better. I get kidded a lot about the tech probems I've had over the last year. Your Apple stats are amazing and I would guess worse than the Dell failure rate at its worst. The thing is not that good manufacturers sometimes make bad products, it's what they do when that happens.

[Richard]

I bought two "factory reconditioned" Intel iMacs. One didn't work properly. Apple took it back. The replacement had issues. Apple took it back. The second replacement, a new machine this time, worked well, but on the day it arrived, the other "reconditioned" iMac's motherboard fried. Apple replaced the motherboard. It fried. Apple replaced it again... and this time both machines have worked well for four months now.

I don't know what's going on with Apple hardware, but their customer service has been exemplary.

[Ben]

Windows and Office work pretty well? Sure, that's exactly it. I use Windows and Office at work, and yeah they get the job done, but when I use my Mac, I actually ENJOY using the computer. And that's the whole part of the Mac experience, enjoying technology. Even though I've never had bad service from Apple, I'd be willing to put up with less than stellar as a trade off for the above. And that, I think, is what makes people rabid Apple fans, and not because Apple has the best service in town.

[masked]

Hey Shel,
I work for Apple and am very interested in your "conversation starter". I think the broader issue is how we evolve large company support organisations where typically the relationship is managed by a junior member of staff and arbitrated by fixed processes? How do we build two-way conversations and trusted relationships? The organisation that cracks this first will have innovation far more valuable than any product based innovation!

It's a bigger issue .... more thoughts on my blog http://www.activeconversations.com/mask/

[Marc Orchant]

Just an aside to Ben - it's actually quite enjoyable for some of us to use Windows and Office (epsecially the new Office 2007 which offers a stunning user-centric experience I've been describing as Apple-like to many in my network).

It's ultimately not an either/or proposition if you're like a lot of people who, like me, have regular access to both platforms. Both Windows and Mac OS X can provide an excellent user experience. The Mac look and feel is very nice and a delight to look at. Windows, out of the box, is less elegant but can easily be tweaked to be just as engaging with a few free or low-cost utilities. It's also taken a big step forward with the imminent release of the new Office suite and Vista.

And there's more to the equation than aesthetics. Actually getting work done has to be part of my assessment of the overall value in the computing experience. For the work I do (marketing at a software company, book and blog writing, community action in the education world), I find the Windows platform offers better tools that are more tightly integarted than does the Mac.

Just my opinion BTW, I'm not trying to change anyone else's mind or make any absolute statements about what is objectively "best" because I think that's a different thing for different people.

[shel israel]

Masked--I just posted a comment on your site. Yours was a thoughtful post. But by being anonymous, you raise a larger question: Why should I trust a company whose employees have to mask their identities. How do I know who you are or why you are saying what you are saying. Why don't your employers trust you to speak your mind as a loyal cabable employee? Without those reasons, you are giving me a second reason to hold off on buying a Mac Pro.

[masked]

Shel, I too am uncomfortable with the anonymity. Here's the dilemma:

- don't participate in the conversation
- participate transparently with a fear that the income to support my family could be a risk
- participate with anonymity

Is the bigger question, as you point out, why don't some employers trust their staff to join and add value to the conversation?

My thoughts have been to "extend the membrane" from the inside with the hope of demonstrating value and effecting a change in approach.

Am I misguided on this ... is transparency and authenticity a prerequisite?

I sense I'm not alone with this dilemma. I will post further on this issue as I think it is important to many of us. What is do you think? I'd be very interested if this issue resonates with any of your constituency.

[Jonathan Marks]

I make a difference between what I do for fun and those moments in business when I need the backing of a reliable computer. If Apple cannot get involved in a transparent discussion about serious issues raised by the "Shels", then I for one don't put Apple any higher on my trusted list when it comes to a serious business proposition. I have had too many near misses with failed batteries and iPod returns to be very serious about using a Mac, even though they have great editing software for HD productions (my field). At trade shows, the Apple stand presenters seem to go through cycles of arrogance, becoming very blase about new products and unable to compare what they are doing with competitors (competitors, what competitors?).

[Donald Burr]

"Never, ever, buy a 1.0 product." This is pretty much a mantra in the computer industry.

When the Intel Macs and MacBooks came up, I wanted one so badly. While I still had a decent desktop at the time (G5 1.8GHz, see below), my poor PowerBook (which I use probably even more often than my desktop) was really starting to show its age, and my PC laptop wasn't that much better. I love the Mac, I need Windows for my job as well as for games (yes, I admit it). So the idea of a Mac laptop that can run both OS X and Windows thrilled me to no end. Yet, I held out on my purchase.

And it was a good thing that I did. Every report I read about whining screens, "mooing" fans, overheating, swollen batteries, LCD problems, etc. gave me a smug sense of satisfaction and security in the knowledge that my decision to wait paid off.

But, like any red-blooded geek, I could not hold out forever, and in early June, while visiting San Francisco for a business trip, I broke down and bought a MacBook Pro. I've been using it solid ever since then, and I have had absolutely no problems with it. The machine performs beautifully, it's wicked fast, and has lived up to each and every one of my expectations, and then some.

Now, there are exceptions to the "don't buy a 1.0 product" rule. When the original G5 tower came out at WWDC 1993, I bought one. I was in a bind at the time (having just lost my desktop machine at the time to massive hardware failure), and since I bought AppleCare along with it, I figured that if there were any "1.0-ness" issues, that I could get the beast exchanged (or at least fixed) under AppleCare. Never had a single problem with it, except for the one time I cheaped out and bought non-first-tier RAM for it. (which was clearly a case of PEBKAC)

I also recently bought a MacBook (non-Pro) for my girlfriend, to replace her very aging iBook G3. Not a single problem with it.

(Oh yeah, of my friends who bought Intel Macs close to release time and had problems with them, none of them had any trouble in getting their issues resolved.)

[Kurt Vander Bogart]

Two weeks ago I just started using my Mac mini as my main computer. By this I mean email, browser, word processing, and graphics. My history has been at least 12 Dell computers since 1990.

Currently, my fairly new Dell running XP is only being used to convert Word Perfect files in Word 2007 once a month from one of my clients. I am tired of spyware, viruses, and registration fixes.

I'm sure when Vista arrives it will be fantastic. But I needed some basic, worthwhile features NOW.

I needed synchronization of bookmarks, calendar and general files with my Powerbook G4 and the web (.Mac) - flawlessly. I needed a GTD (Getting Things Done) program, and Entourage 2004, which has more features than Outlook 2007, seems to be working.

I’m all for open software, but the time I spent trying to synchronize bookmarks in Firefox was criminal.

The Mac is simply more fun to use. That’s the bottom line.

[anonymous coward]

1. There are no specifics to the case you cite. We want details, please.
2. It that's enough to keep you considering Apple products, which other company will you consider? China-based Lenovo? Apple consistently scores at or near the top of the industry for customer support and satisfaction. Many people have had postitive experience dealing with Apple support.
3. Apple didn't bend the rules for your friend who "had deadlines"? Well, tough luck. If your friend had deadline, he should regularly have backed up his so precious hard drive.
Stop the whining, please.

[shel israel]

Hey anonymous coward. Who are you and why don't you have the courage to identify yourself. Should I not deal with Lenovo because they are Chinese? Exactly what is my whine? That a good number of people buying Apple products, specifically the Mac Pro have been doisappointed by both the product and the service. If you read my friend's posting you might notice he was working on an airplane where most people cannot back up. Am I whining that Apple Computer treats employees who care in a way that they are not trusted to identify themselves? What's your excuse for not saying who you are and where your coming from?

[Paul]

Well, I love my MacBook like my other self, but I had certainly reached my wits' end. Dig:
http://dudewheresmymacbook.blogspot.com

[Andy]

Hi,

I got the worst customer service from Microsoft when I wrote my diploma thesis. The bloody M$ Office has a bug. What happens is that you still can open your Office document but its not possible to save it any more. And its not possible to copy it to a new document as well.

Anyway - I got on the phone with M$ and talked with them but they weren't able to help and I lost a lot of work.

Anyway - its not only Apple. It can happen with most companys out there.

Cheers
Andy

[Mickeleh]

Shel,

A guy you know is going to carry weight. But according to the Tech support ratings in Consumer Reports Sept 2006 issue, Apple has the highest score--and the only score over 80 (on a scale of 100).

Top four were Apple (82), Lenovo (69), Toshiba (57), Dell (56);
bottom was Compaq (47).

Ah... but that's old media. Much sounder to relay on the guy you last spoke to or random anecdotal reports from bloggers and friends... in other words "the conversation."

[shel israel]

Mickeleh,

Nice shot. Actually I had seen that survey, but I don't know when it was taken. I wondered how Dell had done so well, comparatively speaking. After all, more recent data shows that they thought their support needed ayt least $100 m in repair. But I tend to believe people I know in conversations more than other sources. And I also do not know how current the rankings you offer are. I do know what happened to Shel Holtz a week ago when a company he gave money to ignored him during a business emergency they created.

[LKM]

I've owned over a dozen Macs during the last 15 years or so. I've had two or three Macs that had issues which weren't directly my fault, and I've broken a few myself. I've never had a problem with Apple's support. In fact, they would gladly repair Macs which I did personally destroy (taking a PowerMac apart without being grounded, spilling water over a PowerBook) free of charge, as long as they were within AppleCare.

I don't know about their tech support as I've never had to use it.

However, Apple *does* offer different support contracts if you need more than what they provide. I don't know what went wrong with the other Shel's Mac (the link doesn't seem to work for me), but if the normal Mac support isn't enough for me (and frankly, unless you only own one computer which needs 100% uptime, I can't see how it isn't), buy professional level AppleCare support!

[Phil]

My mom had her Mac book doing odd things (not waking up from sleep). She brought it in and they just grabbed a new one off the shelf, cloned the drive, and she walked out with a new MacBook, this one completly problem free. I wish I could give a first-hand experience, but my iPod and MacBook have both been flawless.

[fred johnsenn]

i have owned & used (hard) 4 Apple computers dating back to 1995. i currently use a PowerBook G4 & a new intel iMac. i'm about to buy a new Mac Pro tower. i have never had a significant hardware problem w/ any of them.

any issues i've had were addressed by Apple support w/ friendly help & a bare minimum of difficulty. maybe my experience is rare, but i don't think so given Apple consistently high marks for cutomer service.

(most of my problems are caused by PILOT ERROR - another issue that never gets discussed or admitted in a forum such as this as people are too haughty to come down off their high horses & take any blame for their own ignorance...)

people now having problems w/ their Apple products, especially those computer savvy enough to have their own BLOGS, have a very pubilc way of venting their frustration, an easy way of making a big stink. thus, a question: isn't at least possible or feasible that the minority of people who are having problems are simply amplifying them beyond the experience of the vast majority of Apple users? isn't it at least possible that Apple's products are, in fact, not shit, but that there are simply more of them OUT THERE now? isn't it true that w/ a rise in the volume of products will come a rise in service issues, but not necessarily one that is out of proprotion to the amount of service issues there were before every whiny bitch had their own blog?

i am no Kool-Aid drinker. i don't own any black mock-turtle necks. i just think that any discussion of this issue, Apple's service, given my own personal experience & the experience of literally hundreds of Apple users i know who swear by the quality of Apple's products & Apple's support of those products should include a slight readjustment for the age weblog complaining.

[Owen Lystrup]

I feel Shel's pain. After shelling out more money than I would pay for a PC with better hardware, I found that a new MacBook would not last 3 weeks before breaking down fundamentally, then had to haggle with the devils at the Mac help center to get a refund for something that didn't even work before I had owned the thing for three months.

Fix your product, Apple. You're failing your customers.

[William Noetling]

I've been a Mac owner EXCLUSIVELY since 1988, and I swear by Macs. However, even die-hard cultists have problems.

Case in point - my iBook G4 - purchased 12-2004 at the UCLA Computer Store for an outrageously cheap price (which I won't divulge). This BRAND NEW machine had more problems than any other computer I've ever owned or worked on, and that includes first generation Dell Pentiums. In February 2005 the machine was replaced by the UCLA store on authority from Apple. By June 2006 the logic board on the NEW machine had been replaced no less than three times, the hard drive had been replaced, and the screen had a VERY nasty discoloration spot.

Apple's response? Full credit towards any brand new machine. So for $160 extra I got a brand new MacBook (13" 60 gb, 512mb ram). Now, did the previous 18 months worth of tsuris turn me sour towards Apple? Sure did. But in the interium I also purchased an iPod Mini, which I love to death as well.

Recently I got a CD stuck in my drive. Usually I wouldn't think this was that big a deal, I had decided to burn the new Barenaked Ladies CD that I downloaded from iTunes, and during the initialization process I cancelled the burn because I wanted to add to the playlist - I can't stand burning less than 80 minute CDs, realizing that I would lose the disk. One blank CD is no big deal right? Wrong. The drive kept spinning, and wouldn't recognize that there was a CD in there at all. The eject didn't work at all, and shutting the machine down only caused more havoc. Upon reboot the disk STILL wouldn't eject.

So I took it to my local Mac store, which fortunately for me, is about a minute drive away (thank god for living close to the Beverly Center), and THEY couldn't get the disc out, even with using a fire-wire bootable drive. So I had to leave my baby overnight so they could pry the damn thing out of the slot. Long story short, my baby is back in my care, and all is well.

Except that Apple needs to fix that bug with slot-loading CD drives.

Apple has issues, but fewer and farther between than Wintel.