PayperPost--Please Crash & Burn

I have not met Ted Murphy, but he is co-hosting a blog dinner for Jeremiah and me in Boston on July 12. This morning he sent me an email pointing with pride to this BusinessWeek article accusing him of Polluting the Blogosphere, which I think is pretty accurate of Ted's new service PayperPost. Jeremiah, my co-guest at this event posts that Ted is actually a very nice guy, which he apparently also told to Marshall Kirkpatrick of at TechCrunch.

I don't care if Ted comes across as a bloody saint. I hope this nasty, cynical, ugly idea crashes and burns swiftly. Jeremiah may recall that last night over dinner we talked about the meanest people, the ones who have committed the nastiest, least honorable actions.  They always come across as being really nice. They are accomplished at getting other people to like them,despite their slight tendency to be sociopathic in business.

I'm not saying that Ted is one of these.  But I'm feeling a mite suspicious that he is. His email to me said he just was curious to know what I thought of the idea. He had to know I wasn't going to like it.  He just figures that among my many wonderful readers are a few slimeballs who might take him up on his call to prostitution. So maybe he's enjoying any fuel I'm putting on the fire because it could be helping him.

That is not my intention.

When I was a kid, back when the wheel was being developed, there was a school play that nearly every school produced, called "The Devil and Daniel Webster." In it, Webster has a solo in which he says something to the effect of, "The devil won't show you horns and pitchfork when he comes down. He will be a well-dressed and well-mannered man.  He will smile and shake your hand and call you friend."

I didn't much care for the play and I am sure I am badly misquoting it. But the pith of it has resonance for me today.

Comments

[ted murphy]

WOW! I guess this is how the guys at google felt when they started allowing paid links.

I have been called everything and been told to go everywhere today. I expected as much. Anytime you have a new idea that scares people they attack you and make broad generalizations.

Today I recieved an email from a mother who told me she lost her job and that is going to help her pay the rent. She made few bucks for blogging about a show she already loved. Is that the end of civilization? Is that the downfall of the blogosphere? If it is then I am happy to be a part of it.

What about companies like Buzz Agent? Same exact concept, just done in person with product. Is Dave Balter the devil too? I think he is a genius and if his idea makes him the devil than I will be happy to party all night in pergatory with him.

[Jeremiah Owyang]

The thing I like about Shel is that he always speaks his mind --We all know where we stand with him.

Ted, Shel, when you guys meet at Mongolian BBQ, I shall be wearing full body armor hopefully the flames will just stay in the cooking area only...

[Kim Klaver]

Ted:

You could fix the problem by insisting the bloggers tell they're being compensated. Then give them some language to do it.

It's the not telling they're being paid that makes a mockery of the word of mouth bloggers are supposedly doing - they write because they have something to say, not something to sell.

Couldn't a blogger just say:

"I love this [show], and now they're paying me a few shekels to tell you about it. So here I go..."

If they know nothing about the product/service they're promoting and are just doing the usual crowing that the usual sales types do, those bloggers will eventually lose whatever credibility they once had. Just like most sales types have.

Why contribute to that kind of selling out when it's possible to fix it up front?

[shel israel]

Ted,

Could you post the name of this mother who got to pay the rent? I'd like to hear from her directly.

[Drew Olanoff]

Ted, seriously. Comparing yourself to Google? You're on drugs. Take your 5 bucks and buy some Blog ads for your wares.

[Kim Klaver]

Hi Shel...

In his response here Ted said "Today I received an email from a mother who told me she lost her job and that is going to help her pay the rent."

So I suspect she hasn't paid any rent yet, but maybe earned $5.

I wonder how many bloggers will think it's worth $5-$7.50 (what they offer bloggers on Ted's site) to expend the effort to write something that would be "approved" by PayPerPost and that would really get anyone to buy whatever was pitched.

It might just crash all on its own...not enough writers of quality who'd do it for $5, and not enough sales to continue the outlay by the advertisers.

But who knows...

[alan herrell - the head lemur]

Pay Per Post Send Money! Send Product! Send Hookers!

[Nick Davis]

Ted, I'd like to address your response.

>>I guess this is how the guys at google felt when they started allowing paid links.

A more accurate analogy would be about how those failed search engines felt when they stuffed paid placements into SERPs with no differentiation. Google clearly delineates between search results and sponsored links.

>>Today I received an email from a mother who told me she lost her job and that is going to help her pay the rent.

You could rationalize *anything* like this. The ends do not justify the means. This is a stock political answer.

>>Is that the downfall of the blogosphere? If it is then I am happy to be a part of it.

No, it's not the downfall. If a poorly executed idea could cause the downfall of the blogosphere, it was nothing to begin with. This will fail quickly exactly because of the nature of the blogosphere.

>>What about companies like Buzz Agent? Same exact concept, just done in person with product.

The concepts are related, but nowhere near the same. I am a buzz agent. There is NO quid pro quo with Buzz Agent. They send me stuff, and I pass it on if I like it. They are simply getting products to influencers and trying to track the results. I've *never* received any pressure to do otherwise. They've never even suggested I do so. When the products are crap I promptly forget them.

[steven e. streight aka vaspers the grate, on the edge of evening]

PayPerPost is Pseudo Blogging at its worst. It's an idea whose slime has come. It's called Buzz Agenting, faking an enthusiasms for something because you're getting paid to do so.

Yes, Ted, this is the end of blogosphere civilization, this Blog Whoring.

[Kathleen Fasanella]

I'd suspect that the kind of people who'd need the $5 to pay the rent wouldn't be very influential anyway so they'd deserve each other.

[ted murphy]

This comment is from tech crunch about the tech crunch post.

-----

Here’s the $100 Question.

I have created an opportunity on http://www.payperpost.com for $100 to blog about this very post.

It’s easy to turn down $5. How about $100 to blog about something you were already going to?

The fact that you read all the way down to this comment proves you are at least somewhat interested in the subject. If you blog about this and you make $100 for it, disclosure or not, does that make you a sell out? Does it make your blog less relevant?

Or does it make you the same person you were, writing the same blog people still read, just $100 richer? Love to hear everyone’s thoughts.

There are 10 slots open. First come first serve.

----

Anyone know where I can get a kevlar helmet for our blogger dinner? LOL. It should be just greeeeeeeaaattt. Can't wait to meet an army of angry bloggers.

[shel israel]

Hey Ted,

Clever play. If I let your comment stand, will you give me $100? Do I have to tell my readers who trust me to be truthful and transparent?

[/pd]

I am not sure, this will work out at all the reputation economy is too smart ( read as bloggers)

Here's the poop --"You are here to make money so a valid TAX ID (either social security number for individuals or an EIN for companies) is required.'

WTF is that about eh ?? Your not my employee so buzz off ... !!

[/pd]

Oh heres another goodie....

"We will issue your payment via PayPal based on the PayPal e-mail address you provide us"

[El Hakeem]

The brouhaha over this inevitable evolutional step is somewhat baffling. The poisonous detractors of PayperPost inhabit an idealistic and naive universe completely divorced from the cold reality in which we live.

The hippie culture of the 60s foundered and died, as did Communism, because they were premised on assumptions that do not hold true about human nature. Sharing sexual partners, living in communes and scorning opportunities to make money are not human nature. Neither is the silly, supposedly selfless idealism of the amorphous 'blogosphere'.

Bloggers are people, and people are venal, duplicitous and self-seeking. Normal humans don't transform into altruistic saints because they log on to the blogosphere.

When bloggers started publishing AdSense on their sites, it was the first expression of the normal human impulse to benefit financialy from one's effort. It has been a slippery slope since.

As long as humans seek information, entertainment and diversion, there will be publishers to meet this need. As long as there are merchants who need to send a message to readers, publishers will have an incentive to carry these messages.

The only ethical test is whether the system delivers economic value for all participants. If readers get the information and reviews they want, bloggers get revenue and merchants get exposure, where's the harm? Blatantly unethical deceptions that mislead readers will be weeded out by the market. For the rest, Godspeed. New industries present new revenue opportunities. Grow and prosper if you can.

http://www.amusis.com

[Jon]

"Today I recieved an email from a mother who told me she lost her job and that is going to help her pay the rent."

You should have told her that if she whored her body out for a $100 a pop, she could have made more money.

Just because your payperpost helped the (probably-fictional) mother, doesn't mean it's ethical or morally right.

[Mack Collier]

"If you blog about this and you make $100 for it, disclosure or not, does that make you a sell out? Does it make your blog less relevant?"

Yep. Because what's going to happen is, disclosure or not, I'm not going to be very good at it. Because like everyone else that will go along with your scheme, my passion isn't going to be for the product, it isn't going to be for the people, it will be for the money. And when your passion is your wallet, your marketing will suck. Period.

I am passionate about my community. So I blog about things that I think they will find interesting. They won't find Depends Undergarments interesting, and neither will I. If I get paid to blog about them, I am not only going to be blogging about a product I could give a damned less about, I am going to be ticking off my community by blogging about something that they have no interest in.

But I'll get $5. To some people, I guess that's the price they are willing to paid for loss of credibility, and community. Thank God I'm not one of them.

[Jeremy Ballenger]

As much as many of us might hate it, it was inevitable that arrangements like PayPerPost appeared in the 'sphere...

Where there's a shill, there's a way.

Oh, and El Hakeem? Lighten up a little big guy ;-)

[shel israel]

El Hakeem,

I want you to know that I was a Hippie. The ethics I had then are not that different than the es I have today. Second, I want you to know that your link goes to a very dubious location making me wonder just who you really are. I usuallytake down anonymous comments, but I think I'll leave yours up to see what others have to say about it.

[ted murphy]

This entire controversy is fascinating to me. On one hand I see elitists acting as the moral police to the world and on the other hand I see bloggers and advertisers signing up like crazy for this service.

Lets talk irony. This conversation is happening on a site that says "Buy Our Book" in two places - "Where Robert Scoble & Shel Israel wrote their corporate blogging book & where Shel is writing Global Neighborhoods". Shel is an author. Shel GETS PAID to write about topics that the market and his publishers dictate. No market, no book. You don't see him publishing a book about his cat do you?

This entire conversation has to be great for Shel and his publisher. Does that make Shel a whore? I don't think so. Shel, I think you have a lot of great things to say and I believe you mean what you say. However, put under the framework provided in this conversation anyone who writes about something in exchange for compensation is a whore. An ultimately I see this entire blog as a marketing tool.

Does nobody else see this blog as part of marketing scheme? Is it not a vehicle to sell more books? If it isn't then why the title and why the links. Why isn't it just a personal blog.

The fact of the matter is that Shel, like all authors has a publisher and an editor. His words are manipulated, augmented and edited. The title of his last book could have been "Transparent Conversations" or "Uncovered Conversations" but in the end it was "Naked". I am sure that had nothing to do with marketing, money or what a publicist thought would sell more books.

People who get paid to write saying its wrong for people to get paid to write. Got to love that.

I am not saying this blog is treated in the same manner as a book, but the people reading this have to know that the more people who visit this site and the more controversy he stirs the more books Shel will sell. Want to drive up traffic? Make a ridiculously one sided argument. Works like a charm every time.

It would not surprise me at all if Shel was receiving money to post regularly on this blog. That is not a dig on Shel in anyway, it would be a smart move by the publisher to keep the momentum for the next release.

The point is everyone is blogging for a reason. Some people blog to change the world, some people do it as a creative outlet, some people do it to further their careers and some people do it for fame and fortune. What gives any of us the right to determine what people blog about and if, when or how they are compensated if they choose to be?

The bottom line is we simply provide topics for people to write about. We don't tell people what to say or how to say it. If they don't want to write about it they won't. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that neither do thousands of bloggers out there who have already made so many posts we can hardly keep up.

Have any of you even taken the time to go through the system? I think not.

[Jeremy Ballenger]

"Does nobody else see this blog as part of marketing scheme? Is it not a vehicle to sell more books? If it isn't then why the title and why the links. "

I don't see this blog as part of a marketing scheme. While we're talking about 'taking the time to go through the system', my understanding (correct me if I'm mistaken Shel) is this blog was initially established to post sections of the book, while still in draft form, for comment.

A collaborative process if ever I saw one.

And markedly different to shilling for a firm you don't have to disclose you are being paid to write about.

That said, the arrival of PayPerPost was an economic certainty. There is a demand, ironically created in no small part by Shel & Robert's book, for firms to connect with customers and start blogging, revealing their 'humanity'. You only need review the number of projects posted on services like eLance and Guru.com to see just how many firms are outsourcing their supposedly 'authentic' blogs to freelance writers.

So does that make Ted Murphy and crew *visionaries*? Hardly - get over yourself.

[steve]

why such a horrible respose to advertising? it's out there on every medium, every minute of every day. forgive the analogy, but it's like a misguided attemp tto save the "virgin" blogs form some sort of evil ... like many of those misguided attempts think, the blogospehere isn't a virgin to advertising. wihout advertising, this blog wouldn't exist. none of us would won cars or have roofs over our heads. advertising is part of what make a capitalistic society work. you need to let people know about your product through branding and other advertsing or you'll never seel anything. realx, payperpost.com is going to destroy the internet

[Owen Lystrup]

I wasn't going to weigh in on this, but what the hell. I'll sling some mud.

Blogging isn't an altruistic venture, that's true. But the good ones are. So those who participate in this venture, may your blog rot in hell. Payperpost, may you do the same as well. (No harm intended for the creators, just the site.)

El Hakeem -- You have some fine comments, but you even speak like a "philosopher." You really couldn't think of better words to say that humans are greedy morons?

Same to you, buddy.

Steve -- Please, please tell me you will never get a blog. Payperpost will not ruin the blogosphere, but people like yourself will.

"you need to let people know about your product through branding and other advertsing or you'll never seel anything. realx, payperpost.com is going to destroy the internet"

Nice proofreading. Thank God you use punctuation, capitalization and speak in clear sentences like the rest of us, lest we all misunderstand and think you mean to say that payperpost is going to destroy the Internet.

[LJP]

Hmm. Yeah, I had a bad feeling about this PayPerPost thing - it does feel like prostitution. It's like going to a non-commercial TV network (like ABC in Australia) and saying - keep saying what you are saying...but just add that it's great to drive this car and how you love to eat at Joe's. People would freak and lose respect instantly. I mean, my blog is often about the stuff I have bought on ebay that turns out to be complete crap. If I know something is crap, I'm not going to let someone pay me $5 or $500 to say it's great. That would be dishonest and for a blogger, sometimes honesty is all you've got.

[Dee]

My problem with PPP was trying to find those advertisers that I gave a damn about in the first place. I didn't have any luck: insurance companies, online dating web sites, some search portal. Maybe I'm not materialistic enough. Now, if OpenOffice was included, then maybe I would have something to say. Otherwise -- you know -- the few dollars you make off of a post (that requires 30 days to receive payment) does little to repay what you lose in content, consistency, or connection to a web audience.

I'll just stick to online surveys or the Epinion here or there.